Assassination Vacation

/\\/ Public => General => Topic started by: Criminal on October 13, 2007, 09:54:47 pm



Title: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: Criminal on October 13, 2007, 09:54:47 pm
A problem has arrived in our usual AV practices in the Hizzle. AV members should be practicing during AV practice time, not other clans right?

Today was a usual AV CTF practice. we were on around the 5th map when non-AV people started showing up. Captain (AV member duh) seemed to notice tis first and told them to get out of the AV practice. they didn't so he went into spectator and talked to Dizzy (the clan leader duh) about making the non-AV's leave. at about that time i noticed our own Mastermew (AV member duh) iin spectator asking if some 1 would leave so he could play. i had played every map since start so i joined spectator to let him in. When i went to spectator there were Dizzy and Captain arguing about making the non-AV get out, or join spec. i checked the score board and this is what i saw:

a couple AV members actively playing
more AV member in Spec then actively playing
non-AV members actively playing, taking the places of spec'ed AV's who want in on the AV practice

i questioned Dizzy about the situation alongside Captain who had been already arguing. Dizz says "It is tradition to let non-AV member in the Hizzle". The problem me and Captain argued it was AV practice time in an AV server, that is for the AV. The non-AV's were learning our tactics and taking the place of AV's that should be practicing, after all this was an AV PRACTICE.

its ok non-Av's are in the Hizzle when were not practicing, but when we are it should be AV's only!


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: Captain on October 13, 2007, 10:51:24 pm
 :D Agreed with 110%. :-*


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: dester2 on October 13, 2007, 10:58:35 pm
tht is alot of bull about tht and i agree we need AV practice not a million clans coming to play our practice


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: Cappy on October 13, 2007, 10:58:44 pm
Password needs to get changed...


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: ShazMan on October 14, 2007, 12:36:05 am
Jesus, this is what happens when I am not around for ONE PRACTICE

Dizzy was right by the way, non-AV are allowed to play with us, they're encouraged to help out! If the AV specs have already played then let the non-AV have their fun.

I don't see what the big deal is, if you wanted to play, what's stopping you? It's not like 4v4 or some **** is just OUT OF THE QUESTION.


However...

Dizzy, if they really wanted to play, and the non-AVs were flat out NOT LETTING THEM (ie. just being pricks), you should have at least considered telling them to leave to make room for the AVs.

regardless, you're still being pretty ridiculous about this entire thing.


but, since you're apparently so upset about it, I'll try to squeeze in an AV ONLY practice this Sunday or Monday.

ps: yeah, from now on i'll try to be around for practices or give explicit instructions to dizzy about how to run that ****


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: soldatdizzy on October 14, 2007, 02:33:14 pm
Completely blown out of proportion.

Non-AV never outnumbered AV; there were only ever 2 non-AV playing at one time, and for the most part we could not have had 3v3 available without at least one of them present.

There was never a time when any AV was asked to spec except when Hypersniper and Masterwew first joined, and jumped in on a game in-progress (ie would have created a 4v3 situation).  I set them to spec and asked them to wait out the round.  Hypersniper left in a huff (like he usually does) and Masterwew patiently waited for an opportunity to play.

There were a couple of times (not many mind you!  maybe 1 or 2) we could have 4v4'd, and I disallowed this under the impression that Shaz does not consider it good training.

Neither of the non-AV's were behaving disrespectfully.  The policy of letting 'friends of AV' participate has worked out massively to our clan's benefit so far and there are no immediate plans to change it.  I think that people overestimate the danger of 'spying', although when the clan leaders or captains are working on specific 'secret' tactics we will obviously privatize.

Thank you for bringing your concerns to the forums where we can all discuss them together and without the distraction of running a game at the same time.  I'm unlocking this topic so that we can continue the discussion.


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: Criminal on October 14, 2007, 03:21:29 pm
im not asking for the Hizzle to be an AV only server. i think that having it open to other clans is great and i agree it does benefit us in several different ways. i dont think they were being disrespectful, they were just coming in on a server to play. i dont hate them for doing it.

i would just like if AV practice was for AV, and AV only. when it isn't AV practice time then non-AV's should be more then welcome in the hizzle, practically invited.

the vote 4 to 2 so far, its in favor of the our clan that we have the practices for AV's. Shaz maybe you should look at it from our point of view, like Dizzy.

quote from Shaz:
Quote
yeah, from now on i'll try to be around for practices or give explicit instructions to dizzy about how to run that ****
what are u, Dizzy's supervisor now or something?


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: soldatdizzy on October 14, 2007, 03:30:43 pm
quote from Shaz:
Quote
yeah, from now on i'll try to be around for practices or give explicit instructions to dizzy about how to run that ****
what are u, Dizzy's supervisor now or something?
[/quote]

He is when it comes to CTF, Criminal.  I know you've missed a lot of clan business in the last coupla weeks but do try to keep up  ;)

Shaz and I respect your views and we ESPECIALLY appreciate that you have laid them out in these forums in a logical argument.  We'll take a look at the recommendations.  However, honestly this was never a problem with this until last night, and we have to take THAT fact into consideration as well.


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: Captain on October 14, 2007, 04:30:00 pm
A few things, Dizzy.
One, Shaz doesn't respect our opinion, because he closed our topics.  :-X
Two, because of one, you should realize that Shaz isn't too capable at controlling himself, so I'd recommend stripping his powers over the forum for a short while, maybe a week or so, so he realizes he cant do those things. (Tell a man he cant do something once, he will stop for a day. Hit a man with a burning log for doing something wrong, he'll never do it again!) ;D
Three, this wasn't a problem because no one realized how  :o ing stupid it is to have RE, Myth and others come to an AV practice. It's illogical, like Crim said, they could steal our strategies and etc.   ;)
 >:( >:( >:( >:( Read more carefully please!  >:( >:( >:( >:(


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: ShazMan on October 14, 2007, 06:03:16 pm
You guys are incredibly paranoid. Who in the right mind goes to other clan's practices to STEAL TACTICS HEH. It's not like I am there, explaining our strategies in great detail in front of other clans or anything, christ. They'd learn as much about us in a practice as if they were cwing us.
If you guys have a problem with it, suck it up! When I'm around for the next practice, I will decide who plays in practices and who doesn't.


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: Criminal on October 14, 2007, 08:03:48 pm
You guys are incredibly paranoid. Who in the right mind goes to other clan's practices to STEAL TACTICS HEH. It's not like I am there, explaining our strategies in great detail in front of other clans or anything, christ. They'd learn as much about us in a practice as if they were cwing us.
If you guys have a problem with it, suck it up! When I'm around for the next practice, I will decide who plays in practices and who doesn't.

ok dude why dont u go read my posts again and chill out. spying is just one of my arguments why it should be AV's only. there are people who cheat in this world dude. for instance, ive told Dizzy some info on DO that they let slip.

why u getting so hype man? when ur around for next practice u go ahead and organize who's in and who's specing, but if we have a problem were gonna fix it, not "suck it up". thats like your house getting robbed and you dont do **** about it.

lets post some logical thoughts here not some irrational tyrant crap.


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: dester2 on October 14, 2007, 08:09:58 pm
Dude shazz dont **** urself it would b better if it where only AVs playing AV practice


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: ShazMan on October 14, 2007, 09:24:47 pm
RRR SHAZTYRANT WILL DESTRUCT YOU


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: Criminal on October 14, 2007, 09:30:36 pm
lmao nice touch xD


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: Karro on October 15, 2007, 03:12:35 pm
Hrm..I agree with whoever said that AV get the rights to play, like a non AV should go spec or leave if an AV hasn't gotten to practice that night...but say I was practicing the whole night, It would be common courtesy for me to let an AV who hasn't practiced or a non-AV play  ;D


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: shank on October 15, 2007, 07:07:45 pm
ur guyses posts are so **** long....


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: ShazMan on October 15, 2007, 08:35:15 pm
ok dude why dont u go read my posts again and chill out. spying is just one of my arguments why it should be AV's only. there are people who cheat in this world dude. for instance, ive told Dizzy some info on DO that they let slip.

why u getting so hype man? when ur around for next practice u go ahead and organize who's in and who's specing, but if we have a problem were gonna fix it, not "suck it up". thats like your house getting robbed and you dont do **** about it.

lets post some logical thoughts here not some irrational tyrant crap.

Jesus christ, you're awful! You have like two arguments, SPYING (absolutely absurd) and AV MEMBERS WANT TO PLAY.

To address the first, I think you're just batshit insane to think that people go around just to steal tactics and to benefit themselves. Of course, YOU are an exception, considering you just admitted and proved to me that you're a sly weasel who goes around being a fag just to benefit yourself and TO WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN.

To address the second argument, it's PERFECTLY alright if non-AVs play in practices. It will not only enrich our clan relations, but give us a chance to experience playing with new people. If you've been playing for a few rounds, and a non-AV shows up wanting to play, you should forfeit your spot and give them a chance! On the other hand, if non-AV are playing and YOU want to play, assert your **** authority and tell them to spec!

ps. your analogy about the house is just ridiculous, your house being robbed is in no way comparable to VIDEO GAME ARGUMENTS.

For the record, I'm surprised that you guys didn't take care of it IN GAME. Why didn't you? Because of Dizzy's rational point of view? I'm thinking so!

If you see a problem with non-AV's in practices, you might as well get the **** out since that policy is NOT changing.


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: Shinobi on October 15, 2007, 10:47:22 pm
I have stolen all your secrets. I shall now use them against you and obliterate your very beings. Fear me and my superb spying abilities.

I doubt anyone who plays in the AV server is a spy. Mainly because everyone likes Dizzy and thusly is friends with the people in AV. :3 

Furthermore, winning is the soul source of fun to most people, Shazzy. Myself included. I love to win. I love to win a lot. But what I really love is to play well. If I play well, and still lose, I'll just gain respect for the opponents and be happy and move on. But, if I play poorly and lose. Well, then I become pissy. Winning is a good thing. Not to be overlooked. Some people may be all "WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN", but that's because it is DAMN fun to win. Some people just don't enjoy the simpler things in the game, like making friends and chillin'.

Just an outsider butting in on clan affairs. I'll be on my way now.


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: ShazMan on October 15, 2007, 10:51:17 pm
Yeah I understand what you mean.

Winning at all costs is just unnecessary though. Winning WITH FUN is nice :]

Meaning, I'd rather win with fair play and with my own skills than with stolen info etc.


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: Criminal on October 16, 2007, 01:25:11 am
ok dudes dont read this unless u read it to understand my perspective, and not read it to find some way to flame me
everything ive said and about to say has and will disprove how it is mentioned i strive to WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN!!!

what i told dizzy about DO was that they have a expert in almost every gun. Is that being a sly weasel who goes around being a fag just to benefit yourself?

.......no, not a big deal, so stop feeding on it

sure, lets say that spying is an outrageous argument that would never ever EVER happen because we are all children of god and every one of us is fair and equal. to think any of us would take another's strategies is a preposterous idea and anyone who purposes it is the devil and must be flamed. obviously extremely exaggerated  ;D but u get my point: we will put aside the reason spying

i still have more valid arguments that you would notice if you read my posts:
1. AV practices are for AV to practice (as the name implies duh)
2. AV member is priority #1 next to non-AV member
3. The Hizzle is an AV server
4. non-AV's can practice, play, chill and have fun, hangout, show off, self improve, and what ever else they want in the Hizzle when ever they
want! I SUPPORT IT! Just then its AV practice time (like for 1 - 2 hours wed, thurs, fri, and sat i think are the days) then its AV's only.
5. Too get organized with our clan, you must practice with your clan

reason #4 is the reason u guys keep over looking in all my posts. its not like i want non-AV's to never come in to the Hizzle!
To address the second argument, it's PERFECTLY alright if non-AVs play in practices. It will not only enrich our clan relations, but give us a chance to experience playing with new people.
I totally agree and i think that your right it is very good for our clan, their clans, every member of the clans, and for soldat overall! but not in AV practice. AV practice is a time for AV members to get organized with each other and for AV to improve. thats the definition of practice anyways. its just not logical for non-AV's to be in AV practice.

one a side note: i dont respect how your coming at me shaz
you're a sly weasel who goes around being a fag just to benefit yourself
just..... chillax.....


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: soldatdizzy on October 16, 2007, 02:16:52 am
I think you are wrong, Criminal.

Most AV practices have been huge successes, extremely active and beneficial precisely because we permit outsiders in.

Everything you're saying sounds exactly correct, right and logical... on paper.  It's exactly the point of view I started with when I began running practices, and then reality started setting in.  6 AV don't show up on time, so now we have no 3v3... what would you like to do, call it a night, say 'hey guys better luck next week!'... in this case you know what happens?  EVEN FEWER AV show up for the next week.

Once we started letting outsiders in, practices started JUMPING.  Tons of AV people show up reliably every practice and why?  Because they KNOW that there will be games, and good ones.  Don't think of it so much as a private training session, think of it as a semiprivate party where at any given time it will be 80-100% AV, Captains and Leaders are specifically watching people for how far they have improved in the last week, collecting information so that they can make their CW team judgment calls.  It's like a pub except everyone knows everyone.


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: Shinobi on October 17, 2007, 02:23:45 pm
...is the devil and must be flamed.

It's the devil. He lives in fire. Flaming would be ineffective. Get some cold water, or somethin'. That oughta work.


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: shank on October 17, 2007, 02:24:56 pm
i have no opinion in this maybe we should take a vote tho


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: ShazMan on October 17, 2007, 07:35:27 pm
I AM THE LAW OF THIS LAND


And I declare that our policy remains unchanged about this subject.


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: Criminal on October 17, 2007, 07:39:07 pm
...is the devil and must be flamed.

It's the devil. He lives in fire. Flaming would be ineffective. Get some cold water, or somethin'. That oughta work.
that is a very valid statement and i will take this under heavy consideration xD

Shank, this is a vote, we are voting on this. whats your opinion?

Dizzy, what u say sounds very true and if it is then practices should go on like they have been. the key is the words in which you describe it. it is very important to everything that the words to say something are the correct words. calling the practices "AV practice" has a very different meaning to "Open Practice" which is what is should be called. calling it an AV practice confused many people, which is shown throughout this whole thread. Words are taken seriously and shouldn't be regarded as something unimportant. Just by calling the practices "Open Practice" or simply "Practice" instead of what now are "AV practices", this whole issue can be settled.

i feel that Open Practice with all of Dizzy's rules on non-AV's coming to play valid and in place, and that Open Practice would have a better experience then a strict AV Practice.

does every one see this as the logical, rational, and best solution to the whole issue?


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: ShazMan on October 17, 2007, 07:43:22 pm
yay

yes, I do!

ps: Yeah, the term "AV Practice" may have been somewhat confusing to some people. What we (dizzy and i) mean by it is a practice held in the hizzle.


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: tsukan on October 17, 2007, 09:14:28 pm
Yay, an agreement based on paying attention and respecting the merits of each other's opinions!


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: shank on October 18, 2007, 01:52:27 pm
every time we have a practice i gotta do something in real life -_- dont go thinking im not interested cuz im trying!


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: PrettyPrincess on October 19, 2007, 03:41:33 pm
Yeah honestly you all pick the worst times to practice


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: soldatdizzy on October 19, 2007, 04:36:18 pm
yay

yes, I do!

ps: Yeah, the term "AV Practice" may have been somewhat confusing to some people. What we (dizzy and i) mean by it is a practice held in the hizzle.

Yup.  Well the format has been tweaked and is always being tweaked to try new things and keep pace with the actual reality of the clan's needs.  You might notice that about a month ago I stopped calling it Practice in the xfire calendar and started calling it Intraclan/Scrimhunt.  But, eh, even though it can be kind of a misnomer at this point, calling it Practice still kind of covers it.  Training, or Strategy Drills, would be more private.

In the end, the major value of Practices as I see it is mainly just to get a bunch of AV people all playing at the same time.  It's important that you guys have a venue where you get to meet and get to know each other, both for the sake of building interpersonal strength as well as building a sense of each others' capabilities.  This is also where the Leaders and Captains get a chance specifically to watch the team players and stay on top of who is kicking the most ass and who might need some special training in certain subjects.


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: iDante on October 19, 2007, 08:26:55 pm
my opinion on this is that we should have av only practices and mixed practices. Should I explain why or is it obvious? (i'm lazy)


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: Captain on October 22, 2007, 09:59:22 pm
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Exactly why I believe iDante is the true co-leader. DOWN WITH SHAZ! CHEERS ALL ROUND FOR THE NEW CO-LEADER!!! iDANTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: soldatdizzy on October 23, 2007, 12:25:05 am
Having fun on your first day back from your ban i see  :(


Title: Re: AV practice means AV memebers
Post by: ShazMan on October 23, 2007, 10:20:20 am
also... we already talked it over and resolved all the stuff that happened here.


your fault for trying to start stuff captain x<




and ALSO, iDante was the CTF leader long before I was, but when he became inactive, Dizzy took over, then I joined and took over.